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Markus Vinzent’s Blog: Dieter T. Roth, on ‘Marcion and the Dating of the Synoptic Gospels’
Editions du Cerf, Reviewed by Jesse D. Stone, University of St Andrews. This volume gathers together essays produced as part of an interdisciplinary project on the historical roots of early Christian pneumatology […] A Question of Beginnings, a Debate without End
In chapter 3, ‘Re-Dating the Gospels’ (62 pp.) Vinzent argues that the New Testament papyri do not make a dating of the canonical Gospels to the time of Marcion impossible and that ‘the fact that the Gospels are not quoted or referred to in Paul or in other early Christian literature prior to Marcion speaks in favour of a dating of these texts to the time of Marcion’ (p. ).
If you want to know why, read on. Because what we need to know is not whether the evidence is better attested, but whether it is as reliable. Bock does nothing to establish that the Gospels are as reliable as the sources he cites for Caesar see below. In other words, having an accurate text is of no use in comparing source quality. Bock shows no awareness of so basic a point, yet this is fundamental to any schooling as a historian.
He also fails at the facts. His premises are thus false. And therefore his argument would be unsound even if it was logically valid. But more importantly, we trust what those sources say mostly in respect to what we can externally corroborate in eyewitness and archaeological sources. We also have several eyewitness accounts. And Livy, a contemporary of Caesar, covers Caesar in his histories—and in their poetry, so do contemporaries Virgil, Ovid, and Catullus. The Gospels are not eyewitness sources, name no eyewitness sources, and have no verifiable eyewitness sources.
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Paul Foster, Review of my ‘Marcion and the dating of the Synoptic Gospels’ First of all – before I give my comments about the above review – I’d like to express my gratitude to .
Vinzent proposed that Marcion of Sinope was the founder of the Gospel genre known to us in the Synoptic literature and therefore the terminus post quem of the Synoptics should be pushed as late as the time of Marcion around CE. This blog post is not a detailed review nor a response but a survey of the ideas that came to my mind while going through it. Vinzent and the Synoptic Problem The book is intensely engaged with scholarly literature and offers a breath of fresh air for some of the topics it is dealing with.
It comes in four chapters; the first and the fourth which is pretty short are for Marcion and his Gospel while the second and the third are for discussing the synoptic problem and the dating or re-dating of the NT Gospels. Of course the reader of these words can now imagine what an overwhelmingly huge task it is to prove his point. To do that in pages Vinzent had to make two major statements that nearly annihilated all the possible barriers on the way to his theory.
He had to dismiss: In his new book, Vinzent returned with his arguments and questions as early as F C Baur and his contemporaries cf. Non-canonical and non-Marcionite writings. Based on his dismissal of NT scholarship efforts, particularly in the last 50 years, Gnosticism and other manuscripts have become insignificant. For example, yes we do have several constructions of Q but this is because the scholars who worked on it showed a high degree of seriousness that led them to start the construction process every time in dialogue with other constructions.
But they were all working on the texts and at the same time in constant dialogue with the progress of scholarship.
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Roth states: ‘One further problem highlights a methodological issue in reconstructing Marcion’s Gospel. On p. , Vinzent offers an (English) reading of Luke in Marcion’s Gospel. This parable is clearly attested for Marcion’s Gospel, but, in my view, the precise wording cannot be reconstructed.
Theophilus was active in the late 2nd century, and much of the Christian narrative relies on these texts being written much earlier than that at least 60 years earlier. There was a rift building between the Johannines in Western Turkey and the Syrian community sometime before the Gospel of John was created, and the rift had to do with how mystical visions should be interpreted, and how much emphasis should be placed on them.
The Johannines were more conservative in this matter of mystical visions, and the Syrians were more liberal. As April Deconick notes: Could this emerging visionary construct have exacerbated the rift between the Johannines and those who were aligned with them — specifically the Ignatius sect in Syria and the Valentinus sect in Alexandria? Were the Valentinians the instigators of the rift between the Johannine and the Syrian communities?
Was a battle being waged between the Johannines and the Valentinians to win over the Syrians? Considering that the Syrian and Western Turkey communities were not too far apart on theology in the first place, this cooling is an easy situation to imagine. In the geographic and theological space between the Johannines and the Syrians was Marcion. Tertullian says this of Marcion:
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Marcion and the dating of the Synoptic Markus Vinzent. (Studia Patristica Supplements, 2.) Pp. xi+ Leuven–Paris–Walpole, Ma: Peeters, €78 (paper). 90 8.
Pro First round is acceptance only. For the sake of this argument, we are assuming that some form of Christianity is true. Con has to provide reason to believe that God the Father of Christ Jesus is the same god as the god of the Old Testament. However, I find the challenge to be an admirable one, and will accept it. Report this Argument Pro I thank Kyle for accepting and find his name quite ironic as I will be building my case somewhat parallel to how some scholars think Marcion of Sinope built his case for the same argument.
As some may know, Marcion was the most prominent heretic of the 2nd century. In fact, Marcionism and Catholicism were, in a way, fighting to see which idea would win out. Now, not all my arguments will be Marcionite in origin, but it would be a lie to say that he hasn’t influenced much of what I am going to argue.
Roth, on ‘Marcion and the Dating of the Synoptic Gospels’ ‘He is the truer friend who by his censure heals me, than the one who by flattery anoints my head’ Aug. What I have written at the start of my comments on Paul Foster’s review is even more true for the discussion below. Dieter Roth was so fair to send me his review even prior to its publication.
Mar 17, · Markus Vinzent’s Marcion and the Dating of the Synoptic Gospels 2 comments A new book on the Synoptic Gospels has been released. Professor Markus Vinzent of King’s College London, the co-editor of Studia Patristica, has put his years of research on Marcion into his new book Marcion and the Dating of the Synoptic Gospels.
The Minimalist Approach to Marcion Genndy Tartakovsky’s Minimalist Samarai Jack While I on and off toil away with part two, the Catholic Editor, of my three part analysis of who wrote Mark, I came in conversation with David Inglis and came up with a quick topic that needs to be addressed concerning my Interlinear reconstructions of the Marcionite text. My interlinear reconstructions seem to baffle traditionalists, because I follow a minimalist approach, but in a way that turns their world view upside down.
Like Genndy Tartakowsky’s fantastic cartoon, in an effort to tell the cleanest story, everything that is not required is cut away, and what is left is the purest of pure forms. And I am extremely conservative in my approach, because I do not accept any uncertain assumptions. As with the image of Jack and Aku, there may be many detail items missing, and yet no clearer picture of these characters can be had.
Most of the criticism I have received runs along the lines that I am deleting too much material from Marcion’s version without technical support, or what such critics tend to say is no methodology. Their point of view has several built in, implied though sometimes stated assumptions which are not valid for the reconstruction of Marcion. The irony is their criticism also is derived from minimalist principles.
The assumptions that the critics make all depend upon these fallacies 1. The Marcionite Text was not likely very different from our text in size and content – with a few notable exceptions, such as Romans last two chapters, and Luke’s first three chapters 2. Tertullian and Epiphanius give account of most, if not all the omissions, in their anti-Marcion works 3. The Marcionite and Catholic text occupy a similar time frame and era The first two assumptions are so interrelated as to essentially be the same.
They can be traced to Adolf Harnack’s comments in his famous book, Marcion:
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Marcion and the Dating of the Synoptic Gospels (Studia Patristica Supplements) [Markus Vinzent] on *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Are the Synoptic Gospels at odds with Early Christian art and archaeology? Art and archaeology cannot provide the material basis ‘to secure the irrefutable inner continuity’ of the Christian beginnings (Erich Dinkler); can the Synoptic Gospels Author: Markus Vinzent.
He began his teaching career at the University of Michigan as assistant professor of Near Eastern Studies, where he developed the undergraduate and graduate program in Christian origins. Hoffmann has also served as special lecturer in Liberal Arts at the New England Conservatory in Boston   As a fellow at the Center for Inquiry , he was Chair of the Committee for the Scientific Examination of Religion from to , and a founding faculty member of the Humanist Institute.
On the Restitution of Christianity, was published in Hoffmann proposed that Marcion must be dated substantially before the dates assigned on the basis of patristic testimony. According to Hoffmann, Marcion possessed the earliest version of Luke and preserved the primitive version of Paul’s letters. He also attempted to discredit much of the early patristic evidence for Marcion’s life and thought as being apologetically driven. Reviews of this work reflected its controversial nature.
Writing in Revue Biblique , Jerome Murphy-O’Connor called attention to the radical nature of Hoffmann’s theory while asserting that it was “unlikely that a book of equal importance will appear in this generation.